5/16/05
I got the 47 Stude pickup about a week ago. Since then I have done some thinking. There are 5 ways to go on this project.
The first is just to resell it as-is and make some profit.
The second is to get the Buick V-6 now in it running, probably a minimal thing. Mind you, the car was last registered in 1977. It has some automatic and an Olds cutlass rear end.
The steering Pitman arm is hanging loose, needing only a nut to make it functional. The Ford power brake setup hanging in it is unfinished, and lines are hanging loose, so no brakes quite yet. The bed is not bolted down, again a small thing, and the tires are really hazardous.
Scenario #3 would involve keeping the drivetrain as-is, except putting a Turbo Grand National V-6 in it. I have just bought a complete motor this morning.
Scenario #4 would involve removing the entire drivetrain, putting a recent vintage Mustang 5.0 motor, AOD trans, and rear in it, including power steering, brakes, AC, etc. This would require a cost-effective donor car. I bought one this morning for an embarrassingly low price from a friend down the street.
The final iteration would be to go nutzoid and indulge my rear engine fantasy and put some monster BBC motor in the bed. So this afternoon I bought Randy's 780 HP LS-7 BBC which he is removing from his ten-second Nova.
So I now have some choices to make. This rear-engined choice will require getting a 70-ish front wheel drive Toronado or Eldorado front end and transaxle set up. I don't need the 500-inch Caddie motor which normally accompanies such a unit, although that would be cool. I might try to figure a way to put two engines back there!.
Anyway, that's where the insanity has gone in just once day.
5/17/05
Talked with Randy, and we pondered several ways to do the rear-engined beastie. He suggested a V-drive and shorty glide. I have the glide, will have the motor, can get a Ford 9” easily, and called Norm Teague at Teague Marine who is looking for a used V-drive. I also talked to Memory Lane Auto Salvage and they have a Toronado setup which they will cut out of the car for me if I want it for $650. There are some great benefits from that approach, but some severe limitations as to parts availabilities, gear ratios, adaptation to the glide, etc. Ken Walkey used such a setup in his front wheel drive Bonneville car, and I'm working on reaching him. Hooper's rear ends has never done such a thing, and Chris there has no words of wisdom to offer.
I'm meeting with Walkey tomorrow for lunch and to discuss possibilities. He is way sure the Toronado approach is not only doable but preferable. There is a limitation of a rather steep 2.73 gear, not so usable for the street. He has all the parts necessary, including SERIOUSLY beefed trans, etc. I might need to devise some underdrive unit to drop the gears down, although with huge horsepower, I can't see it making a whole lot of difference. I think it will just spin the tires faster with the 2.73's.
I spoke with Harvey, from whom I bought the truck, and his plan was to put a Ford Lightning chassis under the Stude and avoid all other approaches and get a supercharged 4-cam motor to boot. The rear-engine idea still seems monstrous and wonderful to me.
5/29/05
I did meet with Walkey, who enlightened me enormously as to the benefits and strategies of the Toronado approach, and has a used drive setup for $100, no engine. He said the axle ratio is limited to the original 2.73. Using that arrangement also puts the engine WAY back, centered over the axle. I can use the transaxle with virtually any rear end with some adapting, which would then open up the field of ratios. Hopper's suggested NOT using a Jag independent rear, but instead thought the Ford Tbird 8.8 which I have in the Condor is a good thing. He noted I would certainly have to beef up the exterior components for handling huge power. We're going to find out how the stock one does with about 700 HP when I'm done Vorteching the Condor.
I have thought of numerous plans: 3-engined BBC setup with 2 in back and one in front, single engine BBC in rear, all Mustang front to rear, Grand National Turbo motor with the existing trans and rear end, etc. Anthony at Hooper's cautioned that some Cutlass rears (which is what is in there now) were terrible, and there is no way to know without looking at it. I also have no clue as to what trans is sitting in there, either.
All will eventually be disassembled and rebuilt/inspected, so for now it is a lot of mind games. I will need some power steering setup, and the 88 Mustang 5.0 parts car I own will be a fine source for that and the brakes, AC, etc.
I have a tentative media blasting of all the parts on track for about two or three weeks from now in Irvine, where a guy is bringing in a lot of machines to do some industrial work. Otherwise, I might wait and get the ting further down the road. This will run about $800 for all parts and frame, and would involve taking the entire car apart and getting it down there in pieces in the funnycar trailer and Duramax truck. It is a messy operation, and it might be worth it. I am not quite ready, as the dually is not done, so the garage is not really free, and I don't want any more scattered parts right now. So I will likely not do the blasting that soon.
I will spend more time strategizing on just what I want to accomplish, and I'm VERY heavy on the BBC in the rear idea, if not two of them. I will be speaking with Norm Teague again on Tuesday about a V-drive, which he estimates his brother, Bob, will sell for around $600. Norm and I talked about the geometry of it all, and he feels my idea of a split driveshaft to the rear end is a good thing, as it appears the driveshaft will approach 7' long or so. That would make and IRS easy as well, although hardly cheap.
A narrowed 9-inch with huge meats and tubs seems more likely and simpler, and WAY more available.
The color will be Viper yellow, like the funnycar.
6/1/05
Checked with Geoff Lynch at Darby Buick in Sarasota Florida and he put me to Tony, the parts manager, who confirmed the Grand National turbo V-6 motor was to be shipped tomorrow 6/2/05 to me.
6/8/05
Well, I'm getting very LONG on engines! I have decided that it will be a minimum 2-engine BBC setup, and have scored a Mercruiser ZZ454 crate motor with dyno time only at 502 HP, and in 13 minutes it appears I will own it for about $4K or so, plus $350 to ship. Now the question is how do I mount these? One up front, one in back? Two in the rear? Side saddle or tandem? Decisions, decisions. With about a thousand pounds of torque, I will obviously need only a Powerglide. Bob Teague claims he has no used units at the moment, so I will keep trying him while he looks, and go searching on ebay and other places. Yup, got it for $44349 delivered. Now I gotta figure out just how I'm gonna do this thing! Exciting? You bet! I do have a very nice 88 complete Mustang convertible waiting in the wings for I guess something else, and the Grand National motor coming, as well as Randy's monster BBC. That engine will be the #2 for the Stude pickup. I suppose I COULD use the 542 spare FC motor, but I think I'll hold off on that for now.
6/11/05
Went to Bob's tonight.
I mentioned to Chris Titus the saga of buying 4 engines, and deciding on using 2 BBC in the bed of the pickup. He comment4d something about “sicko”. Later, I came across Justin Padfield of Scotts HotRods in Ventura, a VERY high profile builder in the custom world, oft-seen of Rides TV Show. He invited me through the shop, and I will go next week. We talked about the pickup, and he insisted that I use his own manufactured Scott's Front End system, about $3800 plain Jane, $5800 in full polish and chrome (with a possible on-site discount). For ANOTHER $1800 I could step up to 13” rotors and 6-caliper front brakes. For an additional $567 I can get the vacuum pump accessory which guarantees panic stop vacuum from big-cam low-vacuum motors, which I will likely have. Certainly Randy's motor with the mile-wide lope would qualify. The Mercruiser may pull enough vacuum, but why take a chance? I noted I preferred to use the ultra-small Chevy power-steering pump with remote reservoir, and he concurred. I don't know if I will have him do any work on the car at $70 per man-hour, but who knows?
I also ran into the rabid Stude owner, Phil, reading in the back seat and listening to music in his beautiful 50 bullet-nose and nearly flawless Stude. He gave me several phone # which I immediately put in memory on my cell for tracking down parts, etc. The back seat has HUGE legroom. Mine just floats down the highway, Dan was astounded at the comfortable ride. I also checked with DMV today and confirmed I will NOT have to bring the pickup in for a visual inspection, as I have CHP verify the VIN#. So I can register and push it on the street, or non-op it for now. I'll check the difference in price, and also what Grundy coverage will be. Randy noted he has ALL his cars insured. I'm going to do a little Hemmings, etc. research and see what 47 Stude pickups are bringing these days.
The Grand National turbo Buick motor was to have been dropped of today, but the track had no lift gate, and I have no hoist to get the motor off the truck. Fedex will return with it on Monday with the proper lift gate truck. More toys to store.
6/12/05
Things are moving VERY quickly on the project. I just bid on a ford 9” center section, ALL new, built for dragster use, so it is locked. Dave, the owner, has TAD car, distributes for companies, and is a ceaseless font of information and suggestion. He has a 65 vintage Ford 4-wheel transfer case which he feels would be perfect for my V-drive needs, has a 10” offset (to the bottom), is all gears (no chains), and should handle the power. He will deliver for free both the center section and transfer case, and has tons of other goodies as well, like blowers, couplers, etc. This is THE man for the odd stuff I'll need for the project, plus he likes innovating solutions. He also suggested a dragster coupler for the engine or a circle track clutch assembly, so I could unhook the rear engine at will using an air shifter, which he also has cheap. The circle track clutch assembly is probably about $600, the air bottle about $150 (polished). I could use that to kick off a fire suppression system as well, which he also happens to have way cheap. He has also teased me with a pair of 871 polished Mooneyham blowers for $2800. I'll have to think about that for a while. I noted the compression in my two motors was too high for gas (except race gas), and he suggested alcohol. I noted alky leaks by the rings, and he said using gapless top rings cuts it down by 300%. He also mentioned he drains his synthetic oil every two runs, lets the alky evaporate, and puts it back in the motor! He further suggested Red Line Alky Lube. This keeps getting better.
I also found on ebay a PAYR Products BBC 20# plastic dummy block, and inquired if the guy would deal a little better on two units. He came back with a little break, and I countered with a little steeper discount request. He CALLED me today, Sunday (per my second request), and is giving me a show-special dealer-establishing package with two blocks, transmission, 2 balancers, 2 intake manifolds, and two carbs (all are plastic) for $787.50, including shipping. I can buy anything from him in the future at dealer net. This is EXACTLY the stuff I need to mock this setup, and as it is all featherweight, will make things WAY simpler:
I talked with Rob Anderson, who will join me on the tour of Scott's Hot Rods in Ventura on Wednesday with Randy and Sal.
This is EXCITING!
Just spoke with Randy, who put put sober back in my high. He claims differently-powered engines will kill the coupler. He also wonders if there are parts available for the Ford transfer case. There is a Casale V-drive for sale, a 65 vintage unit, and he wonders again if any parts are available (seals, gears, etc.). He is also concerned about the lockup on the rear end. I am not so concerned, having driven the Gremlin with a spool. I may also go to a full-floating rear, and for pushing around I could just pull out one axle with a few bolts. The matching of the engines is troublesome, and this could prove to be daunting. No worries, getting it all fabbed up and actually assembled is challenge enough right now. The rest is required, though finer tuning, and will work itself out down the road. For now, it's on to building a subframe, and getting the rest of the pieces.
6/14/05
Derek Dawson, who sold me the Mercruiser motor, is familiar with twin motor setups and among other things noted:
I may have another marine 454 found. It would be a complete engine minus intake. I would need another $4000 for it plus whatever additional shipping it requires to send with the other.
It would be identical to the first except for the cam which can be easily swapped.The 454s are externally balanced. You will still need the flexplate for the starters, you can still bolt a coupler to the crank/flexplate. I would also bolt the coupler to the balancer of the other. Just make sure your connecting driveline is perfectly balanced or it will destroy the bearings on the cranks. (I had this problem on an out of balance jet boat pump, it ate main bearings until I discovered the problem.)
Derek
Agreed on the flex plates and starters.
My intent would be to internally balance the motors using mallory in the cranks as needed.
Is the balancer a double-keyway? At first glance it seems to be a dicey coupling, as the balancer has a rubber liner, yes? I'd like to eliminate it if possible.
The "connecting" drivelne you mention is the coupler, or the driveshaft etc.?
Any thoughts on the Casale or Glenwood v-drive as usable?
6/15/05
Dave Hitt dropped off the pumpkin and the transfer case. What a monster that case is!!! It must weigh a hundred pounds, at least! It is purportedly about twice as wide in the gears as a V-drive. Hitt noted, and I think correctly, that the transfer case is designed for more pounding, as in 4-wheel rock-snapping, etc. than a V-drive. It appears I may end up owning the Casale as well...we'll see tomorrow night.
Hitt has some interesting stories about TAD and his experiences. Very creative guy.
He also has a set of centerlines 16x16 for $200, and he'll deliver. He's going to check the backspace tomorrow. I was thinking of pulling one of my FV wheels and seeing how it looks in the wheel well. I'm not sure I can even get it close with the existing rear in it, but what the heck.
The wheels you forwarded all look good, although the 10" rims may be too puny, but then I could sell those two. How does 15" in front and 16" in back sound? The tires Hitt has on the centerlines are 2-year old 34.5” slicks, just a little dry he says. He distributes Hoosier and says both Hoosier and MT have 16" cheaters. He thinks floaters are overkill, and I do not.
Justin had mentioned boxing the front frame rails. I guess I'd need to do that before taking the chassis to him, or maybe have him do it?
I'll do some measuring tomorrow for a preliminary tire width working backwards from the fenders inward to get some idea of the housing/rotor width. I'm tempted to run to Pomona early Sat and look for a housing, but it is probably WAY premature at this point.
I'll give Maher a call to keep an eye out for wheels and a rear hosing as well.
Hitt raised an interesting point about radiators. Wow! I'll need a couple! It looks like I might need Meziere electric water pump(s) for a front-mounted radiator. With a fuel cell, lotsa radiator, and perhaps that MONSTER transfer WAY up front, there may not be much room left in that old engine compartment.
Had a fine tour of Scott's hot Rods with Justin Padfield, who talk about as fast as anyone ever. His odd squeaky voice makes him tough to follow at times. He is a shameless salesman for his admittedly well-engineered front products. He offered a mild discount, and had strong opinions on what I should use. That he builds a lot of his own components is good. It appears I'll go with a Wilwood 4-puck caliper front, maybe 6 on the rear, as there will be a LOT of weight back there and HUGE tires, and totally dressed front suspension and rack package, coil-overs, power steering, and an Iditit column in polished finish.
If I had serious money to burn I might opt for a Mark Williams rear, but for now it looks like a shortened 9” with floaters.
I'll likely use a 2x4 subframe for the WHOLE drivetrain. Sal at ACT has suggested a beefed 4L80-E overdrive trans, saving me a GearVendors purchase. He feels one can be built for about the same money as a Powerglide, although almost twice as long. That really is not a problem. I may have to remote the transfer case forward into the old engine compartment anyway just to clear my footwell/dash area.
6/17/05
I did win the Casale, and am going to pick it up in Inglewood tomorrow (Saturday 6/18/05). While down there, I may visit Steve Colquitt, who used to have a yard (literally, he had 26 at one point) full of Mustangs. He is down to 4, and wants me to consider them.
Derek Dawson has said he will hand-deliver both Mercruiser engines in about two weeks. No problem. Except he is in central Missouri! Hey, if he wants to make the trip for $700, that's fine.
6/19/05
The Mustang fanatic is down to 3 for sale, all heavily rusted. He has an El Camino and a friend's 80 Corvette to get rid off, too. I may have a buyer for the Camino in friend and client Earl Harvey.
I opened the mock up blocks and trans, and laid them out next to the pickup, in their approximate positions. Look at the accompanying photos. It all looks good. As noted above, the plan is to build a 2x4 subframe, and drop the whole thing into the Stude frame. I see no reason to even remove the leaf spring front end from the pickup for the install of Scott's new front end. He needs a tire location anyway, and if the frame needs boxing it might be better to just have him do it right then. I need to get at least a set of front rims/tires, or a good set of measurements, to locate the ride height, offset, etc. Nephew Scott also has a friend working at the Wilwood Brake factory in Santa Paula and can get a discount on the brakes. He paid $1600 for a 6-piston set for his Subara (4 wheels). I'll check with Padfield and see where he was on his price and perhaps save a few dollars getting them direct. I am ITCHING to get moving on the pickup, and need to get some more parts together, get the dually out of the garage, and get to gettin'.
The frame should be blasted, and I may just pull the front end off, have the frame rails in front blasted, along with the front clip, and get it over to Scott's in Ventura. I guess it would not be a big deal to remove the cab and bed (just sitting on there anyway) and do the whole frame. It's just that will make it tough to roll at that point. Of course, if it gets stripped to the bare frame, it will have no need to roll, just pick it up, set it in the truck, and drive it up there. I also saw a compelling TV segment about building a chassis and using a jig table. So I might need to construct that jig/frame table to make this work down the road. I should go visit a couple of such rigs, perhaps a Scotts Hot Rods, Boyd's, Showcar Restorations, etc. to see just how it's done. I also could give Montalto a call, have him look it over, get some pricing and timing, and see if it is the right time for him to get involved, deeply.
6/21/05
Spoke with Randy about wheels, tires, etc. He concurred that leaving the existing front end on the frame and taking the inner fender panels out would make it easier for Scott's to line up their new front end. I just need to settle on some front wheels and tires to allow for proper placement of the spindles, etc. Justin typically sets the front end about 4” off the ground, and I'm not convinced I can go that low. I'll obviously need to pull of the existing wheels, mock up the new ones in the opening, and see just how it all looks.
6/24/05
Just got off the phone with Andy of Casale v-drives. I emailed him pix of the Thoroughbred BD-3 V-drive I just bought.
Without yet seeing the pix, he feels it is not up to the task. His Casale 612500-B at 1:1 ratio will do the job for about $3500, around $3300 more than I paid for this Thoroughbred, and $3200 more than the Ford transfer case I got from Dave Hitts. I'm inclined to go with the Hitts case at this point.
I have a call into Jim Maher at Drag parts for some wheels. Once I have the wheels and tires, I believe I can get going on this thing. Having them will allow me to set ride heights, rear end width, get a sense of how radically I must remake the rear frame members for the inboard movement of the wheels and tubs, and determine just where the tires will sit in the front fenders, along with turning radius considerations.
As the dually is really the limiting factor on making real progress on the Stude pickup, I am moving quickly to get that baby moving out.
Randy said he saw ALL sorts of Ford 9” combos at the Pomona Swap Meet, and felt I may have wasted money getting my center section. I think not. It matters little now, I'm just looking for a full-floated narrowed 9” assembly, and the question is just how narrow?
I'll have Scottie research the Wilwood brake setup again and then approach Justin at Scott's Hotrods about doing the front end with my brake kit supplied.